an entire generation of conservative youth spent their formative years binge watching anti-SJW hatebait, lurking /pol/, irony OD'ing on edgy memes, trolling as a second language, and fantasy-role-posting behind marble bust avatars and we have yet to fully account for its consequences
Yeah, you know, I think I read Ross Douthat fairly regularly through Trump I, but I was glancing at some of his columns recently and it just struck me that the right is way, way past that. He had a think about the fractures between "Silicon Valley" and "MAGA populism" during the H1B kerfuffle on Christmas that just seemed downright... quaint compared to the shit in the For You feed every morning.
Chris Hayes has been popping up on my feed recently and his takes are so benignly stupid I've had to block him. I have to be very selective of who gets my attention these days.
Benignly stupid is exactly the word I'd use. Is there anyone, truly anyone, out there, who thinks the question of whether or not we're going to get to Mars or develop a sentient AI is a salient issue for the right?
Alt-right/groypers are the online energy and the small hands the MAGA movement taps into... They create the memes, they flood the enemies, they harass the women, they're bitter, they have too much time on their hand, they practice non ironical nazism passing off as ironical nazism... Of course the trumpist right knows what they owe them. They know the memes, they navigate in the culture, they make the acknowledgements, they whistle the dogs.
Sorry if that's obvious, had you read Daily Stormer's Andrew Anglin's break down to the alt-right ? It's old (2016) and heinous (it's written by a Nazi ; it's Nazi ; it's rabidly antisemitic, misogynist, and racist) but I haven't found yet a better entry point to the millenial alt right & then groyper psyche.
John Ganz. Re: your comment below. Yes, they do want it. Their chit-chat is more visible on Twitter than it used to be, though I don’t go on there anymore. They were complaining about Rufo because he doesn’t want the Holocaust. They complain about Yarvin because Yarvin is Jewish. (Complain is the only word I can think of for what they do in their chatter. It’s a kind of complaining but it is something else as well—a bit like signaling to the other birds.)
I see them as the coming wave behind Rufo and those others. The next wave in US politics. They will make Trump look moderate.
That'll work. Sometimes the point of the sentences is simply to throw in a slur. It won't be meaningful, just hate/violent fantasy+ slur. They sound like seagulls squawking when they find a pile of garbage--so it IS a signal to the others that they too have the vice of bigoted hatred.
Our problem is when people are so downtrodden they cease to be shocked or the normies start to imitate their calls, as some are already starting to. Are they going to want to increase the signal? This is my fear.
John/fellow readers, what is your understanding of the connection between Groypers and the ultra-right Christian Dominionists/whatever they call themselves (the ones who think the First Amendment was a mistake, pluralistic small-l liberal democracy was a mistake, we are meant to be a white Christian theocracy with the God of the Bible as our King)?
How much overlap is there, or are these two separate groups united by their hatred for educated cosmopolitan elites?
Online brain worms driving the modern fascist movement is an interesting thesis. Would explain why hardcore leftists like Taibbi, Grim, Uyghur, Gray, etc go MAGA while Resist Lib wine moms are manning (womanning?) the barricades.
It's the "our system is mostly good, let's reform it" vs. "our system f**king sucks, let's burn it to the ground and dance among the ashes" divide. Hardcore leftists and Trumpers are united, because both belong to the latter group.
I believe you're mistaking 'hardcore leftist' with 'grifters and cons'. Don't believe the hype. (Also, not sure if this is relevant to your username, but I spent a few years as a postdoc researching brain circuits in Drosophila--it made for neat images at least)
Younger volks have been stepping right into "Groyper's Smartphone Memeplex & Casino" for years now. Why would they want to waste their time wandering around in a dusty ol' corpus of TLDR like "Curtis' Cathedral"? If Peter had considered the actual benefits of his financial investments into these various hothouse flower ideologues, maybe he could have made more effecient use of his capital. I suppose then he might have to reconsider his own place in funding movements that ultimately will have little space for some of his personal life preferences.
What do these Groypers want the government to do, and is it meaningfully different from what right wing Republicans have always wanted the government to do?
I’m don’t like the Groypers at all but I feel like what I’ve learned from your book is that a lot of these “new” online right-wing movements are just new labels applied to old forms of right-wing politics that have been around forever. I’m always worried of playing into their narratives about themselves that they’re so cutting-edge and dynamic and novel and nothing like the conservatives who came before.
Groypers believe explicitly in an America that is a white ethno-state, with minorities either eradicated or living as permanent second-class citizens. While all varieties of American conservatism have had some degree of racism in their makeup, it is fair to say that this was not a goal of Reagan/ George H.W Bush conservatism, or George W. Bush style neoconservatism.
Isn't it traditional the left and right revolutionary movements need young foot soldiers to do the grunt work, us middle-aged and olds are generally not up to it. From what I'vw read, Elon got a lot of his young zealots in government positions or acting like they have them anyway.
The questions are did the liberals/left fall asleep at the while in developing their own online meme cultures and if yes, why?
But DOGE, an illegal and imaginary entity with no authority is basically taking over the government and this is very bad.
I will say I'm glad you included Stancil's work. He gets lots of shit from people across the political spectrum, but I do think he grasps a lot of forces at work much better than commenters/pundits to both his left and right.
*taps sign*
an entire generation of conservative youth spent their formative years binge watching anti-SJW hatebait, lurking /pol/, irony OD'ing on edgy memes, trolling as a second language, and fantasy-role-posting behind marble bust avatars and we have yet to fully account for its consequences
Yeah, you know, I think I read Ross Douthat fairly regularly through Trump I, but I was glancing at some of his columns recently and it just struck me that the right is way, way past that. He had a think about the fractures between "Silicon Valley" and "MAGA populism" during the H1B kerfuffle on Christmas that just seemed downright... quaint compared to the shit in the For You feed every morning.
Chris Hayes has been popping up on my feed recently and his takes are so benignly stupid I've had to block him. I have to be very selective of who gets my attention these days.
Benignly stupid is exactly the word I'd use. Is there anyone, truly anyone, out there, who thinks the question of whether or not we're going to get to Mars or develop a sentient AI is a salient issue for the right?
Alt-right/groypers are the online energy and the small hands the MAGA movement taps into... They create the memes, they flood the enemies, they harass the women, they're bitter, they have too much time on their hand, they practice non ironical nazism passing off as ironical nazism... Of course the trumpist right knows what they owe them. They know the memes, they navigate in the culture, they make the acknowledgements, they whistle the dogs.
Sorry if that's obvious, had you read Daily Stormer's Andrew Anglin's break down to the alt-right ? It's old (2016) and heinous (it's written by a Nazi ; it's Nazi ; it's rabidly antisemitic, misogynist, and racist) but I haven't found yet a better entry point to the millenial alt right & then groyper psyche.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170222055716/http://www.dailystormer.com/a-normies-guide-to-the-alt-right/
John Ganz. Re: your comment below. Yes, they do want it. Their chit-chat is more visible on Twitter than it used to be, though I don’t go on there anymore. They were complaining about Rufo because he doesn’t want the Holocaust. They complain about Yarvin because Yarvin is Jewish. (Complain is the only word I can think of for what they do in their chatter. It’s a kind of complaining but it is something else as well—a bit like signaling to the other birds.)
I see them as the coming wave behind Rufo and those others. The next wave in US politics. They will make Trump look moderate.
How about "vice signalling"?
That'll work. Sometimes the point of the sentences is simply to throw in a slur. It won't be meaningful, just hate/violent fantasy+ slur. They sound like seagulls squawking when they find a pile of garbage--so it IS a signal to the others that they too have the vice of bigoted hatred.
Our problem is when people are so downtrodden they cease to be shocked or the normies start to imitate their calls, as some are already starting to. Are they going to want to increase the signal? This is my fear.
Looking forward to your vibes piece!
This is horrifying. Thank you for sharing!
John/fellow readers, what is your understanding of the connection between Groypers and the ultra-right Christian Dominionists/whatever they call themselves (the ones who think the First Amendment was a mistake, pluralistic small-l liberal democracy was a mistake, we are meant to be a white Christian theocracy with the God of the Bible as our King)?
How much overlap is there, or are these two separate groups united by their hatred for educated cosmopolitan elites?
Online brain worms driving the modern fascist movement is an interesting thesis. Would explain why hardcore leftists like Taibbi, Grim, Uyghur, Gray, etc go MAGA while Resist Lib wine moms are manning (womanning?) the barricades.
It's the "our system is mostly good, let's reform it" vs. "our system f**king sucks, let's burn it to the ground and dance among the ashes" divide. Hardcore leftists and Trumpers are united, because both belong to the latter group.
I believe you're mistaking 'hardcore leftist' with 'grifters and cons'. Don't believe the hype. (Also, not sure if this is relevant to your username, but I spent a few years as a postdoc researching brain circuits in Drosophila--it made for neat images at least)
It’s both frightening and ridiculous which makes it even more sinister, in some respects.
This is fuck around and find out time and these are people who aren’t getting fucked and have never found anything out.
Younger volks have been stepping right into "Groyper's Smartphone Memeplex & Casino" for years now. Why would they want to waste their time wandering around in a dusty ol' corpus of TLDR like "Curtis' Cathedral"? If Peter had considered the actual benefits of his financial investments into these various hothouse flower ideologues, maybe he could have made more effecient use of his capital. I suppose then he might have to reconsider his own place in funding movements that ultimately will have little space for some of his personal life preferences.
What do these Groypers want the government to do, and is it meaningfully different from what right wing Republicans have always wanted the government to do?
Uh, the holocaust?
I’m don’t like the Groypers at all but I feel like what I’ve learned from your book is that a lot of these “new” online right-wing movements are just new labels applied to old forms of right-wing politics that have been around forever. I’m always worried of playing into their narratives about themselves that they’re so cutting-edge and dynamic and novel and nothing like the conservatives who came before.
I'm talking about their sociology here. I'm not saying oh they are some new shiny object. Don't worry so much.
Groypers believe explicitly in an America that is a white ethno-state, with minorities either eradicated or living as permanent second-class citizens. While all varieties of American conservatism have had some degree of racism in their makeup, it is fair to say that this was not a goal of Reagan/ George H.W Bush conservatism, or George W. Bush style neoconservatism.
Isn't it traditional the left and right revolutionary movements need young foot soldiers to do the grunt work, us middle-aged and olds are generally not up to it. From what I'vw read, Elon got a lot of his young zealots in government positions or acting like they have them anyway.
The questions are did the liberals/left fall asleep at the while in developing their own online meme cultures and if yes, why?
But DOGE, an illegal and imaginary entity with no authority is basically taking over the government and this is very bad.
Good article as usual.
I will say I'm glad you included Stancil's work. He gets lots of shit from people across the political spectrum, but I do think he grasps a lot of forces at work much better than commenters/pundits to both his left and right.
Well, as it turns out that guy does not work in the White House. I'm sorry i included it
I was unaware that the groyper cartoon frog was distinct from Pepe. I feel like a fool.
excited for your next piece on the structure and practice of national coomerism
Alex Pareene wrote a prophetic piece about this after Charlottesville. Early Nick Fuentes appearance! https://www.splinter.com/charlottesville-was-a-preview-of-the-future-of-the-repu-1797988745
Isn't being into Yarvin one of the signs/symptoms of groyperfication? or is it really such a distinct thing by now?
(regardless I do agree that profiling Yarvin gives an incomplete/misleading picture of what's going on)