Not sure if you saw Darryl Cooper’s tweet that he was “just saying bits and pieces of what Buchanan and other paleocons believe” but fits nicely with your thesis on the overlap of paleocons and nazis
From Cooper “quoting” dialog about the really tough spot the Nazis found themselves in through no fault of their own: “We can’t feed these people, we don’t have the food to feed these people.” “Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to just finish them off quickly now?”—I can see Trump saying this at the podium with his followers nodding in stern concurrence in the background.
the og cassandras of the left have been anarchists who predicted exactly how the bolshevik (counter)revolution, the soviet union, and every other marxist state would go down since 1872 (hague congress schism)
I mean the distinction between a Trotskyite and Kropotkinite would be lost on 99.9% of humanity lol, but Trotskyists are the ones standing on street corners selling newspapers and prophesying the end of the world, whereas anarchists tend to go the more expedient route of acting like the world has already ended.
In addition to the Commissar Order and the Einsatzgruppen, one should also cite the Hunger Plan, adopted as part of the pre-invasion planning in May 1941. This identified what it termed a "surplus" of some 20-30 million people in western Russia who were to be killed by starvation, partly in order to supply the Wehrmacht in Russia with food, partly to clear the way for future German settlement. This plan was largely given up by the end of 1941, unlike the Final Solution, but the adoption of the plan and the months-long efforts to make it happen are an important part of disproving the false claim of German innocence.
The notion of Britain accepting Hitler's peace in May-June 1940 or such a peace being remotely sustainable for any period of time is absurd, something Chamberlain himself knew full well by that time, but yeah, the notion that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact would have or could have held is probably even more ridiculous.
Nazi belief in their right of irredentism and that Jewish people were not human were both unwavering, absolute, and universal among the hierarchy. To believe that there was any ending to that story in 1940's Europe other than a world historic bloodbath to Germany's East can only emerge from a cocktail of trolling and stupidity.
@sjellic2, I agree with you completely. I am, however, puzzled that you posted this as a reply to my comment, which doesn't saying anything about Chamberlain, Molotov-Ribbentrop, etc. Did you mean to reply to someone else's comment?
I think what Daryl Cooper is trying to say is that Barbarossa doesn't happen (and thus the situation never reaches the points you mention in your post), were it not for Churchill's aggression.
And like, that's very dumb (as your comment correctly illustrates). It's all of a piece, Nazi conduct before, during, and after the Eastern Front all flows inevitably from the core beliefs of the movement.
You only get to Cooper's logic from an intent toward Nazi apologia, it's too silly and incoherent to come up with otherwise.
For work reasons I listen to the Commentary podcast on a regular basis, and John Podhoretz spent a bunch of time yesterday apologizing profusely for his role in getting Tucker Carlson's career started.
I've been saying "fuck John Podhoretz" for several decades by now.
he's twenty years late and millions of dollars short. the first time I saw Tucker, I knew what he was. same deal with Netanyahu, who struck me a typical high school bully at first glance. I have no significantly measurable tolerance for these fools and their mea culpa bullshit.
Not for nothing, it seems JD Vance, or whomever JD Vance is paying to curate his Twitter account, made sure to follow him from his personal and professional press accounts for his Senate office.
About five years ago, I was talking with my supervisor at a community college here in TN. She was a bit mad at me for saying a bad word in class. Then out of the blue she said, "Shannon, we have HOLOCAUST DENIERS here at this school!"
I think the point was: "You don't realize how out of step you are with the rest of the faculty and staff here. You can't say a four-letter word. They are so conservative that they think the Holocaust didn't happen."
Of course that raises a lot of questions: Why wasn't she calling THEM into her office to fuss at them for spreading lies about history? Isn't that a bit worse than letting an Anglo-Saxon word slip out instead of its Latin euphemism/synonym?
Yes it is worse, and it would be deeply irritating that you as the more reasonable person are somehow expected to be the one to walk on verbal eggshells. There are deep issues here and this should not be on you.
It's ok: I quit in early 22 because the omicron variant was coming, but in TN mask mandates were outlawed. My dad was very old and my daughter in law was pregnant, and I didn't want to give them omicron.
Very good post. Given the astonishing amount of research that has been done on the Nazis in general and the Holocaust in particular, including a number of major museums with big research staffs around the world, the idea that the Germans just got overwhelmed by their own good intentions is deeply stupid, or more likely driven by fairly deep anti-semitism and a fairly dangerous world view. What a bunch of creeps.
It really is looney to me that there is a level of surprise around Tucker and co. platforming this stuff.
John mentions R Derek Black in his post and, frankly, I’ve never been able to get the end of this article from The Post out of my head for the last 8 years:
“Derek said he actually believed in more immigration, because he had been studying the social and economic benefits of diversity.
Don thought that would result in a white genocide.
Derek thought race was a false concept anyway.
They sat across from each other, searching for ways to bridge the divide. The bay was one block away. Just across from there was Mar-a-Lago, where Trump had lived and vacationed for so many years, once installing an 80-foot pole for a gigantic American flag.
“Who would have thought he’d be the one to take it mainstream?” Don said, and in a moment of so much division, it was the one point on which they agreed”
My pet theory for the now openly fascist turns of the plutocrat class is that they went to social media expecting adulation (because IRL they are surrounded by yes people and others who cater to their every whim) but on the internet they get exposed to the peanut gallery and it shocked them.
As with Irving, everything follows from the premise that Europe had a “Jewish problem”. Everything can be shoe-horned in after that. Cooper and his ilk are almost verbatim Irving redux.
Tucker Carlson on Zelensky almost a year ago: "Sweaty, rat-like persecutor of Christians. A comedian turned oligarch, a friend of Blackrock [...] our shifty, dead-eyed Ukrainian friend."
Tucker Carlson after Oct. 7, on campus antisemitism: claims that the "Zionists" funding "white genocide" are only getting a taste of their own medicine.
His guest Douglas Macgregor back in 2022, on the Great Replacement Theory: "This is a microcosm of everything that’s wrong now in the United States, because we have a huge problem with a class of so-called elites, the people who are wealthy, very wealthy in many cases and they are, as the Russians used to call certain individuals many, many years ago, rootless cosmopolitans. They live above all of this, they have no connection to the country. There is nothing there that holds them in place, and they are largely responsible, in my judgment, for the condition that we are in today. That group more than anything else is what we’re up against."
Long time in the making, I guess. At first I was trying to take an optimistic read on this, like, hey, imagine if he still had an audience in the millions, but it looks like it's not that clear how much his viewership has suffered from the migration to Twitter. (https://www.nbcnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-show-twitter-rcna89628)
Years ago, I posted a comment on the blog ‘Naked Capitalism’ about Tucker Carlson’s antisemitism and got a number of responses that were some version of ‘so what?’ (There used to be some good articles on there.)
The post was praising some supposed turn he was making towards economic populism.
This brought me up short. I didn’t know what to think at the time—but half the posts there are now things from Infowars so I guess it’s not a mystery to me now.
There’s so much more antisemitism on Twitter right now that it’s blowing my mind. I am avoiding Twitter lately but it is shocking. (And NO I am not talking about support for Palestinians or criticisms of Israel. It’s NAZI shit. They might give lip service to Palestinians to grab followers but it is straight up Nazi shit.)
There was always a fair amount of antisemitism in corners of the internet. But something has changed. Something is in the air right now, and Tucker Carlson is riding that draft. Scary stuff.
As someone who believes our support for Israel is one of the most shameful things we’re doing as a country right now, I agree with this. The anti-semitism on the internet is CRAZY. What really shocks me is the explicit embrace of it. Like it’s not dog whistling, people are self consciously racist and anti-Semitic. Argument is not Dems are being too imposing and woke scolds by not letting edgy jokes slide, now their argument is actually it’s rational and good to be racist and anti-Semitic because it’s true and *those* people are inferior (Blacks) and controlling/selfish (Jews).
The backlash to JDs aggressive soc conservatism gives me hope. Trump had a dark charisma where no one took his social conservatism seriously but the country doesn’t have appetite for JD. Republicans are overrating support for racism and social conservatism, public might be anti-woke but they’re largely civil libertarian.
Not sure if you saw Darryl Cooper’s tweet that he was “just saying bits and pieces of what Buchanan and other paleocons believe” but fits nicely with your thesis on the overlap of paleocons and nazis
From Cooper “quoting” dialog about the really tough spot the Nazis found themselves in through no fault of their own: “We can’t feed these people, we don’t have the food to feed these people.” “Rather than wait for them all to slowly starve this winter, wouldn’t it be more humane to just finish them off quickly now?”—I can see Trump saying this at the podium with his followers nodding in stern concurrence in the background.
every hysterical sjw who called certain 'conservative' provocateurs nazis has long been vindicated and their prescience continues to be substantiated
I think the word you’re looking for is “Cassandra”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra
(Most leftist Cassandras are Trotskyists, though.)
Anyway your average Trotskyist (god I love this painting):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cassandra1.jpeg
the og cassandras of the left have been anarchists who predicted exactly how the bolshevik (counter)revolution, the soviet union, and every other marxist state would go down since 1872 (hague congress schism)
I mean the distinction between a Trotskyite and Kropotkinite would be lost on 99.9% of humanity lol, but Trotskyists are the ones standing on street corners selling newspapers and prophesying the end of the world, whereas anarchists tend to go the more expedient route of acting like the world has already ended.
In addition to the Commissar Order and the Einsatzgruppen, one should also cite the Hunger Plan, adopted as part of the pre-invasion planning in May 1941. This identified what it termed a "surplus" of some 20-30 million people in western Russia who were to be killed by starvation, partly in order to supply the Wehrmacht in Russia with food, partly to clear the way for future German settlement. This plan was largely given up by the end of 1941, unlike the Final Solution, but the adoption of the plan and the months-long efforts to make it happen are an important part of disproving the false claim of German innocence.
The notion of Britain accepting Hitler's peace in May-June 1940 or such a peace being remotely sustainable for any period of time is absurd, something Chamberlain himself knew full well by that time, but yeah, the notion that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact would have or could have held is probably even more ridiculous.
Nazi belief in their right of irredentism and that Jewish people were not human were both unwavering, absolute, and universal among the hierarchy. To believe that there was any ending to that story in 1940's Europe other than a world historic bloodbath to Germany's East can only emerge from a cocktail of trolling and stupidity.
@sjellic2, I agree with you completely. I am, however, puzzled that you posted this as a reply to my comment, which doesn't saying anything about Chamberlain, Molotov-Ribbentrop, etc. Did you mean to reply to someone else's comment?
I think what Daryl Cooper is trying to say is that Barbarossa doesn't happen (and thus the situation never reaches the points you mention in your post), were it not for Churchill's aggression.
And like, that's very dumb (as your comment correctly illustrates). It's all of a piece, Nazi conduct before, during, and after the Eastern Front all flows inevitably from the core beliefs of the movement.
You only get to Cooper's logic from an intent toward Nazi apologia, it's too silly and incoherent to come up with otherwise.
For work reasons I listen to the Commentary podcast on a regular basis, and John Podhoretz spent a bunch of time yesterday apologizing profusely for his role in getting Tucker Carlson's career started.
I've been saying "fuck John Podhoretz" for several decades by now.
he's twenty years late and millions of dollars short. the first time I saw Tucker, I knew what he was. same deal with Netanyahu, who struck me a typical high school bully at first glance. I have no significantly measurable tolerance for these fools and their mea culpa bullshit.
Did he have any reflections about himself—about why he was the guy that did it?
Not for nothing, it seems JD Vance, or whomever JD Vance is paying to curate his Twitter account, made sure to follow him from his personal and professional press accounts for his Senate office.
https://newrepublic.com/post/185616/jd-vance-following-hitler-apologist
Do we even have to wonder why JD Vance likes a Holocaust denier?
About five years ago, I was talking with my supervisor at a community college here in TN. She was a bit mad at me for saying a bad word in class. Then out of the blue she said, "Shannon, we have HOLOCAUST DENIERS here at this school!"
I think the point was: "You don't realize how out of step you are with the rest of the faculty and staff here. You can't say a four-letter word. They are so conservative that they think the Holocaust didn't happen."
Of course that raises a lot of questions: Why wasn't she calling THEM into her office to fuss at them for spreading lies about history? Isn't that a bit worse than letting an Anglo-Saxon word slip out instead of its Latin euphemism/synonym?
Yes it is worse, and it would be deeply irritating that you as the more reasonable person are somehow expected to be the one to walk on verbal eggshells. There are deep issues here and this should not be on you.
It's ok: I quit in early 22 because the omicron variant was coming, but in TN mask mandates were outlawed. My dad was very old and my daughter in law was pregnant, and I didn't want to give them omicron.
Apparently DC also produces the Jocko podcast - bridging the creep-jock nazi dichotomy
Very good post. Given the astonishing amount of research that has been done on the Nazis in general and the Holocaust in particular, including a number of major museums with big research staffs around the world, the idea that the Germans just got overwhelmed by their own good intentions is deeply stupid, or more likely driven by fairly deep anti-semitism and a fairly dangerous world view. What a bunch of creeps.
It really is looney to me that there is a level of surprise around Tucker and co. platforming this stuff.
John mentions R Derek Black in his post and, frankly, I’ve never been able to get the end of this article from The Post out of my head for the last 8 years:
“Derek said he actually believed in more immigration, because he had been studying the social and economic benefits of diversity.
Don thought that would result in a white genocide.
Derek thought race was a false concept anyway.
They sat across from each other, searching for ways to bridge the divide. The bay was one block away. Just across from there was Mar-a-Lago, where Trump had lived and vacationed for so many years, once installing an 80-foot pole for a gigantic American flag.
“Who would have thought he’d be the one to take it mainstream?” Don said, and in a moment of so much division, it was the one point on which they agreed”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html
My pet theory for the now openly fascist turns of the plutocrat class is that they went to social media expecting adulation (because IRL they are surrounded by yes people and others who cater to their every whim) but on the internet they get exposed to the peanut gallery and it shocked them.
The Fash & The Curious
It's really grimly funny that these are the same people who jump to compare every liberal political figure to Neville Chamberlain.
As with Irving, everything follows from the premise that Europe had a “Jewish problem”. Everything can be shoe-horned in after that. Cooper and his ilk are almost verbatim Irving redux.
Tucker Carlson on Zelensky almost a year ago: "Sweaty, rat-like persecutor of Christians. A comedian turned oligarch, a friend of Blackrock [...] our shifty, dead-eyed Ukrainian friend."
Tucker Carlson after Oct. 7, on campus antisemitism: claims that the "Zionists" funding "white genocide" are only getting a taste of their own medicine.
His guest Douglas Macgregor back in 2022, on the Great Replacement Theory: "This is a microcosm of everything that’s wrong now in the United States, because we have a huge problem with a class of so-called elites, the people who are wealthy, very wealthy in many cases and they are, as the Russians used to call certain individuals many, many years ago, rootless cosmopolitans. They live above all of this, they have no connection to the country. There is nothing there that holds them in place, and they are largely responsible, in my judgment, for the condition that we are in today. That group more than anything else is what we’re up against."
Long time in the making, I guess. At first I was trying to take an optimistic read on this, like, hey, imagine if he still had an audience in the millions, but it looks like it's not that clear how much his viewership has suffered from the migration to Twitter. (https://www.nbcnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-show-twitter-rcna89628)
Years ago, I posted a comment on the blog ‘Naked Capitalism’ about Tucker Carlson’s antisemitism and got a number of responses that were some version of ‘so what?’ (There used to be some good articles on there.)
The post was praising some supposed turn he was making towards economic populism.
This brought me up short. I didn’t know what to think at the time—but half the posts there are now things from Infowars so I guess it’s not a mystery to me now.
There’s so much more antisemitism on Twitter right now that it’s blowing my mind. I am avoiding Twitter lately but it is shocking. (And NO I am not talking about support for Palestinians or criticisms of Israel. It’s NAZI shit. They might give lip service to Palestinians to grab followers but it is straight up Nazi shit.)
There was always a fair amount of antisemitism in corners of the internet. But something has changed. Something is in the air right now, and Tucker Carlson is riding that draft. Scary stuff.
As someone who believes our support for Israel is one of the most shameful things we’re doing as a country right now, I agree with this. The anti-semitism on the internet is CRAZY. What really shocks me is the explicit embrace of it. Like it’s not dog whistling, people are self consciously racist and anti-Semitic. Argument is not Dems are being too imposing and woke scolds by not letting edgy jokes slide, now their argument is actually it’s rational and good to be racist and anti-Semitic because it’s true and *those* people are inferior (Blacks) and controlling/selfish (Jews).
The backlash to JDs aggressive soc conservatism gives me hope. Trump had a dark charisma where no one took his social conservatism seriously but the country doesn’t have appetite for JD. Republicans are overrating support for racism and social conservatism, public might be anti-woke but they’re largely civil libertarian.
Ferguson says Tucker = Father Coughlin.
You say Musk = Henry Ford
You say - and I suppose I'm Walter Winchell
A very close to exact analogy. I love it.
I laughed out loud at the Walter Winchell jokes but then wondered if John isn’t actually more like Herman Roth from “The Plot Against America”.
Maybe the angry cousin