Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Ro's avatar

Everything in your explanation seems completely right —except I have a quibble with the last part. Americans have a very weak conception of the structure and role of the state but they ricochet between very high expectations of what the state should do for them, and a reluctance to accept their own dependence on the state. These things often come together in the form of an overwhelming feeling of discontent that is sometimes very vague (something is wrong, malaise has set in, the government is at fault that my life is not as I want it to be) and sometimes specific to an absurd degree (egg/gas/housing prices should be lower, everyone should be able to find a job, and anything bad which happens such as a crime or a terrorist attack, should always have been prevented by the government).

That last one might seem explicable even on the most narrow form of the social contract. But it takes the form that bad events should be prevented entirely, which is not terribly realistic. If you don’t have a clear sense of how things happen or why though, you will be likely to accept the idea that it’s some quality of the leader e.g., ‘strength’ or ‘intelligence’ that are essential to preventing the events you don’t want. And that’s how it has been in US politics for some time. The president is assumed to manage the economy, and this is seen as the president’s main job, with an ancillary job of being responsible for the culture. (Running the government seems an afterthought for many.) So if Joe Biden is ‘woke’ this meant that the casting of movies was not to your liking. The nebulousness lends itself to fascism—one wants that special and strong leader. Except our expectations are too high, and too concretely economic. So it’s unlikely to work long term or generate the blind gratitude and loyalty someone like Hoxha could get by telling the Albanians there was a wool surplus.

(The likelihood of discontent unfortunately creates a strong incentive to select both internal and external enemies to palm off the failures on.)

In addition to their high expectations for security, Americans also have very high expectations for personal freedom, though they are also willing to accept bad tradeoffs in the tension between freedom and security, if they think this makes them safer, but someone else less free.

So maybe its the willingness to universalize we’re losing. Possibly when Americans had clearer international foils in the forms of despotic governments elsewhere (plus the certainty all deprived people were elsewhere) we could take pride in the fact that everyone in the US had more freedom, and prosperity than elsewhere. Besides some economic shifts, we don’t have those foils anymore (and capitalists don’t have those threats in the form of international communism). So Americans see themselves more as customers than as citizens, and the reflected pride they had for their good fortune starts to seem a bit tarnished. This also makes Trump’s mode of both lamenting and promising appealing, since he uses that feeling of rivalry with other governments, and the promise of besting them while also warning us that ‘people are laughing at us’ because we are ‘being taken advantage of.’

The connection between libertarianism and fascism has often seemed to me to flow from personal umbrage about the idea of being ruled, even (especially) in the form of demands for cooperation under rules of fairness. The libertarian only offers a potential for mastery of others as a consequence of pure self-rule though. It’s especially attractive for the person who assumes they will be a master of industry. It can’t guarantee one will have mastery over others, since it holds to a certain idea of equality in the form of equal liberty (and assumes the state is always the culprit in restricting liberty). But, as a fantasy, you’re at least spared the indignity of ever being coerced by the democratic choices of others in your society.

How much better then will fascism look to a person attracted to libertarianism for the reason of avoiding any social demand whatsoever. Fascism promise to completely shake off even constraints posed by informal moral cooperation, and non-enforceable expectations of fairness, where people around you expect you to behave as if they also matter. It offers a guarantee of rule over others, which was likely an implicit sweetener for many people attracted to libertarianism who would have to get that by becoming masters of industry. Surely, *they* aren’t the weak who may falter in the absence of government social supports. With fascism, they don’t even have to worry about working to rise to the top—in the fascist fantasy it’s a sure thing you’ll dominate all the people who formerly annoyed you You won’t be free of domination yourself, because you will have a despotic leader you must obey—but the despotic leader is going to institute a kind of permission structure that allows for you and everyone like you to dominate others without even the informal interference of ‘woke scolds, feminist or anti-racist ideas, etc. that threaten to assert you’re a jerk for assuming your subjectivity determines reality, and your wants must be at the center of all interactions

You can see this in Yarvin’s work. He dreams of being ruled by a king, but clearly that king is not going to be a ‘woke’ king, who urges us to be kind, cooperative, and acknowledge the subjectivity of others—i.e., those informal but purely voluntary moral constraints which so intensely bug the shit out of the fascist. (The libertarian does not address since as deniers of the significance of society, they leave all social pressure aside). The ruler re-makes even the private sphere in the mode amenable to those who reject the subjectivity of others, provided they lack the characteristics that the fascist finds revolting.

Expand full comment
Jimmy Business's avatar

It seems to me that the states didn't have much of a non-pejorative-idiom for Trumpy politics before he came on the scene. "Conservative" conjured bush/romney/church/suit-and-tie types. But there were still a lot of "anti-establishment", conspiratorial young men who hated the libs but were relatively secular and wanted the state not leave stuff they liked alone (weed, maybe abortion). Good chance you call yourself a libertatian if that was the case, even if you don't have particularly strong attachment to e.g., the non-aggression principle or the fountainhead. And then Trump comes on the scene, and he's got what you like about libertarianism without the wackier anti-statism, and you're off to the races. I'm curious to what extent the libertarian-to-hard-right pipeline holds now that more-explicitly-rightist politics are more accessible and less taboo.

I was also thinking about this when I listened to your interview hosted by the Leo Baeck Institute, particularly the discussion of how American fascism would take on American symbols of freedom, apple pie, etc. "Freedom" in the American context has deep roots being used to refer to the right to amass and enjoy property (not incompatible with the hard right), and historically for that "property" to include other people (obviously compatible with the hard right). So it makes sense the American hard right would label themselves libertarians, as you get plausible deniability by equivocating without selling out.

Expand full comment
45 more comments...

No posts