Vivek's rhetoric on this reminded me of JD Vance's "childless cat ladies" comments, in that both are expressing a fairly banal sentiment, but doing so in the most insulting, alienating possible way, an unmistakable product of an online discursive space that demands being a charmless prick as a mark of "honesty" and "realism".
That's the big mystery of American politics. As soon as the messenger isn't Trump himself the "gangster gemeinschaft" savoir faire disappears and it immediately becomes revoltingly, unmistakably Online. Does MAGA just evaporate without DJT? How could it? But how could it not?
This might be attempted by degenerating into a dynasty with Junior next in line and maybe later Baron. That process will have to wait until Donald dies since he and Junior don't really get along, but alas, he's the one that seems to also get at what those rally crowds crave. If librals can train themselves to openly loathe Junior in the same ways they have done with Donald, then those crowds will have someone good enough with the same last name.
The tech right will win this dispute. Lower wages, forced immobility, and the threat of deportation make employing foreign talent very attractive to tech companies. As always, the drive towards higher profits will supercede campaign promises.
Plus if the new regime is able to dismantle birth right citizenship, it's that much less incentive for these workers to put down roots and have families here, and thus remain disposable commodities.
Some of the time, immigrants may make less than than their native born counterparts, sometimes not. More often, I think it's just no one has the job if it is not filled by an immigrant. "They employ immigrants so they can pay them less" is so often just the right's "foreigners are taking our jobs" with a different dressing.
Thank you, John. Your analysis is astute. I would add that the tech-lord illiberalism (as does MAGA) also has misogyny at its core, alongside racism. This spate of talk from Musk, Ramaswamy, and others references their "guys" on H-1Bs, and the word choice is no accident: there's no room for women in tech, or in their vision of technocapitalist oligarchy. (Of course, there are some very talented women in tech, but they are erased from this discussion and will likely become more marginalized as Musk & Co. reiterate and reinforce their positions.)
I wonder if there's also a theme of 'internationalism for me, not for thee.' On a ground level we must keep cultures pure. Further up the hierarchy, though, we can cross borders, create international relationships and hear a future Italian prime minister quote Chesterton.
Of course, as you said elsewhere, everybody imagines themselves to be ascendant on the hierarchy. It's a variation on the Latino Trump voter who insists that the good, hard-working immigrants are safe from deportation.
By the way, does it fit with your book that Vivek's pop culture references were 90's sitcoms?
There is one major force that continues to be overlooked in the ever spreading blight of conservatism and this latest wrinkle in the putrid MAGAsphere, and that is the corrupting influence of the beneficiaries of British colonialism who have migrated to the US and are working to reshape American democracy into the instrument of the racist oppression they know and love. Murdoch, Musk, Hailey and Ramaswamy all share that cultural conditioning. At present there is some grating of rough edges as they are attracted and repulsed by America’s oldest tranche of British racism, Southern culture, but they will adapt and will soon be singing the song of the South in four part harmony.
H-1B aside, one eagerly awaits MAGA clamouring for abolition of the humble H-2A visa, which has enabled 400,000 temporary agricultural workers to “steal” all those cushy farm labour jobs Trump’s base is so keen perform themselves.
That said, as the murk clears Trump is pretty obviously the man on strings here, it’s the corporate techbros’ moment, and, in any case, by the time his term is up he’ll likely be dead or drooling in his soup.
This indeed does look like a contest between alternative visions of racial capitalism: the techno-entrepeneurs’ vision closely resembles Cedric Robinson’s description of Early Modern Mediterranean city states which he used to theorize the concept. In his view, the racial capitalist model of the Caribbean plantation is a derivative offshoot of this earlier model (where ethnic groups were constrained into differently valued occupational niches). Not coincidentally, antisemitism played a crucial role in racializing key elements of the emerging capitalist system (think “Jewish moneylender”).
Interesting, do you have a reference to that Cedric Robinson theory to share? I wonder how much the theory would have to be complicated by the way the Christian kingdoms (Spain, Portugal, France) tended to pursue racial/religious purity at home (but not in their colonies; and one should also note the presence at home of Cagot-type artisanal caste groups), and by the fact that it was the Ottomans (not, I would think, among the "emerging capitalists" Robinson has in mind) who really pursued this occupational/cultural niche version of multi-ethnicity.
H1B is the US version of the gulf Arab kefala system of tied labour. Hence Bannon's techno-feudalism label. On a practical level, Twitter would have entirely collapsed after Musk took it over, without the base of the H1B workforce that couldn't leave. And Trump knows that Musk's support, including leveraging Twitter into a MAGA machine, was invaluable. So no surprises that Trump backs Musk on this one as a quid pro quo and simple self-interest devoid of any other ideological considerations
I've been told (and I don't have evidence) that the real reason tech loves H1B visas is not to "get the best" or the other trope we hear, because there aren't enough qualified natives, but because they can PAY THEM LESS. I have heard from embittered tech grads that they were not hired because they wanted a salary that had reasonable expectations of considering their training and ability, but the H1B candidate was chosen as (s)he would accept about half of that. The native person has crushing student loan debt in addition to simply wanting a decent wage.
Feel free to disabuse me of my take on this; perhaps I've only run into disaffected job applicants. BTW, I live in Seattle area.
I suspect Techno elite prefer smart & obedient indian worker comparing to black American. It’s easy to handle obedient people. Europe didn’t discover this because of language difficulties but definitely Middle East countries know alot about this.
I'll make a comparison to unfortunate 20th century regimes. John has already mentioned the MAGA alt kamaraden as "brownshirts" in this debate.
This is setting up a Night of the Long Knives (I don't think literally, but who knows?) where Bannon et Al get kicked out and Musk, Thiel come out on top.
What’s insidious is how this earns these guys credit among soft liberals and moderate reactionaries, and in turn juices their political projects and success.
H-1B isn't the only way the new regime will pee on The People of the Land concerning immigration. Yes, there will be a much-heralded "crackdown" on illegals. But there'll also be much less-heralded carve-outs for employers who kick back to Donnie & Co. so they can keep their employees whose papers are not in order. Shakedowns, IOW.
Vivek's rhetoric on this reminded me of JD Vance's "childless cat ladies" comments, in that both are expressing a fairly banal sentiment, but doing so in the most insulting, alienating possible way, an unmistakable product of an online discursive space that demands being a charmless prick as a mark of "honesty" and "realism".
That's the big mystery of American politics. As soon as the messenger isn't Trump himself the "gangster gemeinschaft" savoir faire disappears and it immediately becomes revoltingly, unmistakably Online. Does MAGA just evaporate without DJT? How could it? But how could it not?
This might be attempted by degenerating into a dynasty with Junior next in line and maybe later Baron. That process will have to wait until Donald dies since he and Junior don't really get along, but alas, he's the one that seems to also get at what those rally crowds crave. If librals can train themselves to openly loathe Junior in the same ways they have done with Donald, then those crowds will have someone good enough with the same last name.
The tech right will win this dispute. Lower wages, forced immobility, and the threat of deportation make employing foreign talent very attractive to tech companies. As always, the drive towards higher profits will supercede campaign promises.
Plus if the new regime is able to dismantle birth right citizenship, it's that much less incentive for these workers to put down roots and have families here, and thus remain disposable commodities.
excellent point
We're running with immigrants lower wages for native workers here? That's a shame.
No, a lack of basic worker protections for immigrants lowers their wages
Some of the time, immigrants may make less than than their native born counterparts, sometimes not. More often, I think it's just no one has the job if it is not filled by an immigrant. "They employ immigrants so they can pay them less" is so often just the right's "foreigners are taking our jobs" with a different dressing.
Thank you, John. Your analysis is astute. I would add that the tech-lord illiberalism (as does MAGA) also has misogyny at its core, alongside racism. This spate of talk from Musk, Ramaswamy, and others references their "guys" on H-1Bs, and the word choice is no accident: there's no room for women in tech, or in their vision of technocapitalist oligarchy. (Of course, there are some very talented women in tech, but they are erased from this discussion and will likely become more marginalized as Musk & Co. reiterate and reinforce their positions.)
I wonder if there's also a theme of 'internationalism for me, not for thee.' On a ground level we must keep cultures pure. Further up the hierarchy, though, we can cross borders, create international relationships and hear a future Italian prime minister quote Chesterton.
Of course, as you said elsewhere, everybody imagines themselves to be ascendant on the hierarchy. It's a variation on the Latino Trump voter who insists that the good, hard-working immigrants are safe from deportation.
By the way, does it fit with your book that Vivek's pop culture references were 90's sitcoms?
There is one major force that continues to be overlooked in the ever spreading blight of conservatism and this latest wrinkle in the putrid MAGAsphere, and that is the corrupting influence of the beneficiaries of British colonialism who have migrated to the US and are working to reshape American democracy into the instrument of the racist oppression they know and love. Murdoch, Musk, Hailey and Ramaswamy all share that cultural conditioning. At present there is some grating of rough edges as they are attracted and repulsed by America’s oldest tranche of British racism, Southern culture, but they will adapt and will soon be singing the song of the South in four part harmony.
H-1B aside, one eagerly awaits MAGA clamouring for abolition of the humble H-2A visa, which has enabled 400,000 temporary agricultural workers to “steal” all those cushy farm labour jobs Trump’s base is so keen perform themselves.
That said, as the murk clears Trump is pretty obviously the man on strings here, it’s the corporate techbros’ moment, and, in any case, by the time his term is up he’ll likely be dead or drooling in his soup.
This indeed does look like a contest between alternative visions of racial capitalism: the techno-entrepeneurs’ vision closely resembles Cedric Robinson’s description of Early Modern Mediterranean city states which he used to theorize the concept. In his view, the racial capitalist model of the Caribbean plantation is a derivative offshoot of this earlier model (where ethnic groups were constrained into differently valued occupational niches). Not coincidentally, antisemitism played a crucial role in racializing key elements of the emerging capitalist system (think “Jewish moneylender”).
Interesting, do you have a reference to that Cedric Robinson theory to share? I wonder how much the theory would have to be complicated by the way the Christian kingdoms (Spain, Portugal, France) tended to pursue racial/religious purity at home (but not in their colonies; and one should also note the presence at home of Cagot-type artisanal caste groups), and by the fact that it was the Ottomans (not, I would think, among the "emerging capitalists" Robinson has in mind) who really pursued this occupational/cultural niche version of multi-ethnicity.
H1B is the US version of the gulf Arab kefala system of tied labour. Hence Bannon's techno-feudalism label. On a practical level, Twitter would have entirely collapsed after Musk took it over, without the base of the H1B workforce that couldn't leave. And Trump knows that Musk's support, including leveraging Twitter into a MAGA machine, was invaluable. So no surprises that Trump backs Musk on this one as a quid pro quo and simple self-interest devoid of any other ideological considerations
Thanks for an interesting post. May I suggest you add “retard” to the list of epithets you don’t think merit repeating?
The transactional fascists are demonstrating to the ideological facists who The Boss is.
I've been told (and I don't have evidence) that the real reason tech loves H1B visas is not to "get the best" or the other trope we hear, because there aren't enough qualified natives, but because they can PAY THEM LESS. I have heard from embittered tech grads that they were not hired because they wanted a salary that had reasonable expectations of considering their training and ability, but the H1B candidate was chosen as (s)he would accept about half of that. The native person has crushing student loan debt in addition to simply wanting a decent wage.
Feel free to disabuse me of my take on this; perhaps I've only run into disaffected job applicants. BTW, I live in Seattle area.
I suspect Techno elite prefer smart & obedient indian worker comparing to black American. It’s easy to handle obedient people. Europe didn’t discover this because of language difficulties but definitely Middle East countries know alot about this.
I'll make a comparison to unfortunate 20th century regimes. John has already mentioned the MAGA alt kamaraden as "brownshirts" in this debate.
This is setting up a Night of the Long Knives (I don't think literally, but who knows?) where Bannon et Al get kicked out and Musk, Thiel come out on top.
What’s insidious is how this earns these guys credit among soft liberals and moderate reactionaries, and in turn juices their political projects and success.
H-1B isn't the only way the new regime will pee on The People of the Land concerning immigration. Yes, there will be a much-heralded "crackdown" on illegals. But there'll also be much less-heralded carve-outs for employers who kick back to Donnie & Co. so they can keep their employees whose papers are not in order. Shakedowns, IOW.
It's gonna be wild.