That Gonzalez post is truly surreal to read – a dark-mirror version of identical arguments I’ve seen on the left. Ever since Trump got elected, and still after his loss to Biden, we’ve seen countless variations on “the left is eating its own and obsessed with pointless dunks, while the right is on the march.” It feels almost banal to point out that, from Maoist shitposter to terminally contrarian centrist to full groyper, what Matt Christman called “the siren song of the online own” truly transcends stated ideology.
Great connection back to Girard here: live by mimetic desire, die by it I guess! Reminded of Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum here-- the way playing along with wild right-wing conspiracy theories thinking you're in control leaves you instead beholden to those who actually believe them. Where do you think this ends?
I think it's significant that Rufo, in his comment, openly admits that the Nazis who were offended by the Babylon Bee are on the right. This is not what conservatives typically say to more mixed audiences, but it is what they understand to be true in their conversations among themselves. That tells you a lot about the current state of Twitter!
Nicely done, and with a dividend that one learns the names of some new offenders. But as for the envoi: how about Shakespeare, "A plague on both your houses."
I think "they didn't think it through" is going to be the tag line for Our Times (such as the GOP's continuing own goals on repo rights): whether this period is a prelude for some really awful shit yet to come (here in the US I mean), or just a "silly season" when we came really close to something really awful. Not a lot of thinking going on, but a whole lot of emoting... at fever pitch it seems. It boggles my mind how so many of the most macho of macho-men sure are emotional.
Interesting article! I personally think Candace is smart woman and very influential, but I disagree with her arguments, she has been soft with Andrew tate, I think they have long term friendships, since Andrew is Muslim I suspect her antisemitism comes from Muslim influence. America has long powerful Jewish influence, but Muslim influence is increasing lately, I was surprised the other day to see so many non Muslim following Ramadan, can you imagine in Italy first time one school will give holiday day to Muslim students and will close for Muslim holiday. Let’s not mention how influential are Muslims in UK. I personally don’t agree with Netanyahu decision in Gaza, but definitely Israel should change something to have less enemy. I saw the cover of the Economist where it shows Israel flag solitude, I think its powerful image and there’s truth behind it. Israel should be accepted in Middle East, It should make peace with Palestine. Antisemitism should be stopped.
What if that rapper formerly known as Kanye was into anti-Semitism and Hitler before Candace came along? I have not seen many deep follow-ups on how far those beliefs might go back. The handful of journalists that have actually asked seem to find that this probably goes back further than when Ye started wearing a red hat. I'm no investigative journalist, so I could be interpreting that evidence improperly.
The most interesting aspect of this fight, for me, is the debate over "Christ is King" and whether Candace Owens was being anti-Semitic when she used it. Jeremy Boreing likened the phrase to a shovel -- you can use it for both helpful and harmful purposes. However, this particular shovel happens to be the central theological, not to mention political, belief of a large swath of conservatives. And you got a writer for Crisis Magazine saying, yes, it means that Jews should convert and atone for the murder of Jesus. (Not that we hate Jews!) I'm not sure that's under the heading of 'groyperfication,' but it is a reminder of the hierarchy under dispute here.
John, on the question of Vichy have you come across L'état contre les juifs ? Laurent Joly, Champs histoire, Flammarion 978 2 0814 8546 4. It's an excellent analysis of what happened under occupation and the Vichy government's role north as well as south of the line. He's also written on the Rafle du Vel d'Hiv separately, though it's included in this book too on a smaller scale. He's as keen on historical accuracy as he is scathing of fascists then and now.
It makes a valuable contribution to our understanding of tactics used by fascism, and because it's at one remove from what's happening in the USA (and from what some of our Tories are trying to do here in the UK) it's perhaps easier to appreciate the issues and dangers for us now.
He's also written La Falsification de l'histoire, a short but biting demolition and exposé of the lies coming out from Eric Zemmour. Again, so many parallels with the Anglosphere.
But it would be more interesting if the Bee hadn't been punching down. (Trope of inbred bogan). I don't peruse their site. But have they mocked Trump or Thiel? Wealthy, prominent enablers of fascist discourse and even policy? (Who, in Trump's case, is no more conventionally articulate than the mock inbred fella).
That Gonzalez post is truly surreal to read – a dark-mirror version of identical arguments I’ve seen on the left. Ever since Trump got elected, and still after his loss to Biden, we’ve seen countless variations on “the left is eating its own and obsessed with pointless dunks, while the right is on the march.” It feels almost banal to point out that, from Maoist shitposter to terminally contrarian centrist to full groyper, what Matt Christman called “the siren song of the online own” truly transcends stated ideology.
Great connection back to Girard here: live by mimetic desire, die by it I guess! Reminded of Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum here-- the way playing along with wild right-wing conspiracy theories thinking you're in control leaves you instead beholden to those who actually believe them. Where do you think this ends?
I think it's significant that Rufo, in his comment, openly admits that the Nazis who were offended by the Babylon Bee are on the right. This is not what conservatives typically say to more mixed audiences, but it is what they understand to be true in their conversations among themselves. That tells you a lot about the current state of Twitter!
Nicely done, and with a dividend that one learns the names of some new offenders. But as for the envoi: how about Shakespeare, "A plague on both your houses."
Too bad about the proverb - I think toads are rather attractive animals. Snakes are kind of beautiful too.
I think "they didn't think it through" is going to be the tag line for Our Times (such as the GOP's continuing own goals on repo rights): whether this period is a prelude for some really awful shit yet to come (here in the US I mean), or just a "silly season" when we came really close to something really awful. Not a lot of thinking going on, but a whole lot of emoting... at fever pitch it seems. It boggles my mind how so many of the most macho of macho-men sure are emotional.
Interesting article! I personally think Candace is smart woman and very influential, but I disagree with her arguments, she has been soft with Andrew tate, I think they have long term friendships, since Andrew is Muslim I suspect her antisemitism comes from Muslim influence. America has long powerful Jewish influence, but Muslim influence is increasing lately, I was surprised the other day to see so many non Muslim following Ramadan, can you imagine in Italy first time one school will give holiday day to Muslim students and will close for Muslim holiday. Let’s not mention how influential are Muslims in UK. I personally don’t agree with Netanyahu decision in Gaza, but definitely Israel should change something to have less enemy. I saw the cover of the Economist where it shows Israel flag solitude, I think its powerful image and there’s truth behind it. Israel should be accepted in Middle East, It should make peace with Palestine. Antisemitism should be stopped.
Great article with a lot of insightful points.
What if that rapper formerly known as Kanye was into anti-Semitism and Hitler before Candace came along? I have not seen many deep follow-ups on how far those beliefs might go back. The handful of journalists that have actually asked seem to find that this probably goes back further than when Ye started wearing a red hat. I'm no investigative journalist, so I could be interpreting that evidence improperly.
The funny thing about this is that it is as if they never heard of the left-wing circular firing squad.
The most interesting aspect of this fight, for me, is the debate over "Christ is King" and whether Candace Owens was being anti-Semitic when she used it. Jeremy Boreing likened the phrase to a shovel -- you can use it for both helpful and harmful purposes. However, this particular shovel happens to be the central theological, not to mention political, belief of a large swath of conservatives. And you got a writer for Crisis Magazine saying, yes, it means that Jews should convert and atone for the murder of Jesus. (Not that we hate Jews!) I'm not sure that's under the heading of 'groyperfication,' but it is a reminder of the hierarchy under dispute here.
The parable of the toad and the scorpion is also apropos.
Reminds me of the time some dudes tried to rob a suicide bomber on his way into Israel and his response was to blow everyone sky high.
John, on the question of Vichy have you come across L'état contre les juifs ? Laurent Joly, Champs histoire, Flammarion 978 2 0814 8546 4. It's an excellent analysis of what happened under occupation and the Vichy government's role north as well as south of the line. He's also written on the Rafle du Vel d'Hiv separately, though it's included in this book too on a smaller scale. He's as keen on historical accuracy as he is scathing of fascists then and now.
It makes a valuable contribution to our understanding of tactics used by fascism, and because it's at one remove from what's happening in the USA (and from what some of our Tories are trying to do here in the UK) it's perhaps easier to appreciate the issues and dangers for us now.
He's also written La Falsification de l'histoire, a short but biting demolition and exposé of the lies coming out from Eric Zemmour. Again, so many parallels with the Anglosphere.
Interesting.
But it would be more interesting if the Bee hadn't been punching down. (Trope of inbred bogan). I don't peruse their site. But have they mocked Trump or Thiel? Wealthy, prominent enablers of fascist discourse and even policy? (Who, in Trump's case, is no more conventionally articulate than the mock inbred fella).
You gotta love his new word "conspiratard"....